Уважаемые изучатели:

[stpetersburg.livejournal.com]

Today, I successfully managed to purchase my first railroad ticket, in person, from the Ленинградский вокзал ticket window. However, this was after spending about thirty minutes looking at the information posted in various places and deciding exactly what I was going to say to the cashier before I actually went and said it. While buying it, I understand about 10% total of what came through the little speaker under the window. Thankfully, it was the most important 10 percent (i.e., the price, rounded to the nearest hundred roubles), but still, I was a bit concerned that I caught very little of what was actually said. And it happens that I still tend to catch the minority of what people say, even when talking directly to me.

I seem to think it's not so much my lack of knowledge about the language itself (I can read more or less okay) as much as it is my inability to listen. I try really hard, but so much just either flies right by or is not even in the same time zone. So, what I would like to ask of those in the community who have already learned a second language is this: do most Russians just not speak well (clearly and loudly) or am I just not up to snuff, and if it is the latter, what advice do you have for learning to listen in a second language?

Спасибо вам больше

Comments

[veggna.livejournal.com]

I advice you to watch films and TV programs in Russian. Even if you understand just a little bit, you'll be able to get used to Russian speech :)

[wire-shock.livejournal.com]

Oh, those little speakers. I can hardly hear what they say. A Russian myself... They all just seem to mumble.

[datsmi.livejournal.com]

A Russian myself...
- а что это значит?))

[wire-shock.livejournal.com]

[I am] a Russian myself.

[datsmi.livejournal.com]

Well reduction is a common thing in russian speach.
When i'm with a foreigner who speaks russian i try to speak more clearly and slowly.
I think you should feel russian way of word-reduction ... it's like in english - they dont often say "that" but "tha"
the same stuff in russian
"сколько вам надо билетов" - sounds like "skoka vam nada biletf"
пятьдесят штук - pis'at shtook

[datsmi.livejournal.com]

))

[wolk-off.livejournal.com]

I've been to three countries which languages I could read and, more or less, speak: Germany, France, and the U.S. First visits were terrible. For example, I had some 14 years of English self-study when I first came to the U.S., I could somehow explain to people what I needed, I could read everything, but I wasn't able to pick up more than 20 per cent of what I heard.
On that first visit, I've had two situations like the one you've described. Om my 2nd day in the U.S., I found that the mike on my video camera was dying, so I went to some kind of electronic emporium near Canal St. in NYC. I was (still am, actually) sure that I have explained my need perfectly correct, but of about two hundred words returned to me by the salesperson, I could only get "you're looking for something that doesn't exist" (though I knew perfectly that external condenser microphones for V8 video cameras did exist everywhere, except possibly in that store.) The second situation was exactly like yours: I've been buying me a bus ticket to Boston. The fact that I'm typing this right now proves that, despite the fact that I could only get the price figures from what the salesperson was saying to me, I finally made it to Boston and then returned home:))))

My 2nd visit to the States was a break-through, I suddenly found that I could comprehend more than a half of what the people were speaking, that I could watch TV and understand what was going on, and - oh miracle! - I could call people on the phone and understand some portions of their speech even without seeing their lips!!! :))

So don't worry, keep practicing and it's going to happen one bright day :))

I guess I do the same thing myself

[stpetersburg.livejournal.com]

When I get my accent going, I'm never "talking," but I'm "talken'".

Re: I guess I do the same thing myself

[datsmi.livejournal.com]

i don't understand your idiom "talken" quite well, could you say that in other words?)))

Re: I guess I do the same thing myself

[stpetersburg.livejournal.com]

In the southern US, almost every single word that ends in -ing is pronounced like -en. The g is not pronounced, and the i is pronounced somewhere between a short i and a short e. Putting that "guh" sound on the end of a word is too much work for such laid back people like Southerners.

[honey-pablo.livejournal.com]

Thank you for your memories. Very optimistic! :)

Re: I guess I do the same thing myself

[datsmi.livejournal.com]

got it
thank you))

Re: I guess I do the same thing myself

[aciel.livejournal.com]

I will add that many Americans who never visit the South their whole lives and then finally do can't understand a word of the Southern drawl. I occasionally hear people from New York, New Jersey, etc complaining about it. So no doubt it's nearly incomprehensible to foreigners.

[belacane.livejournal.com]

I've never been to Peter... but living in Moscow I have to say that it doesn't matter what language you speak, what comes through the little window in the oddest position at the train stations is half the time uninterpretable anyhow =).

as far as learning to listen..... learn vocab like mad, and then just listen to natives speak russian as much as possible.
radio, tv, friends, movies.... whatever you can find.
It's the only way.

[lexabear.livejournal.com]

I'd like to commiserate with you. Despite being able to read Russian fairly well, when it sits there all nice and waits for you to reference a dictionary, my listening skills are terrible. I think it's just part of learning a language - getting used to speaking it is often more difficult than reading/writing it. It just seems like something that will come with practice, much like every other skill.

Re: I guess I do the same thing myself

[belacane.livejournal.com]

i have a horrible time with a really thick southern american accent....

Re: I guess I do the same thing myself

[kehlen-crow.livejournal.com]

I was shocked lately when I listened to a song sang with a heavy southern accent - I couldn't, I couldn't get the words and I was very naive and thought I had already came over this stage :)

[shandeegoddess.livejournal.com]

OMG Lol, that happens to me too :-P ♥

[nemica.livejournal.com]

Oh, I'm dying every time I speak in English on the phone! :)))

[kottu.livejournal.com]

It's simple. Firstly, Russian pronunciation differs from american (or english) greatly. Russian pronunciation is built on the sounds that are produced in the rear part of throat and tongue while americans articulate sounds with use of the front part of it. So, it's normal thing that Russian sorta "swallow" words and ends of phrases. Course, it's not that Russian speech is the same puzzle of sounds as it is for you. You simply gotta get more speech practice, not only speaking but also listening to what people say. What really helps is when you talk with friends and ask themn to repeat some fast prhase they just said. Then you will understand and remember the music of this or that phrase.

You know, once i heard something like "I'veneverseenthemcomeontime" said in one or two seconds. Naturally, i coudn't figure out what it was so i asked. Then the guy said it a bit slower and i could clearly distinct all the words. So, now even i can speak it out same fast as it is ususally spoken. Just ry to remember the whole music pattern of phrases - that works.

[kutsuwamushi.livejournal.com]

Russian pronunciation is built on the sounds that are produced in the rear part of throat and tongue while americans articulate sounds with use of the front part of it.

That's nonsense.

If you laid Russian and English phonemes out on a chart, they would occupy close to the same space. The only "gutteral" sound Russian posseses that English does not is /x/, the velar fricative, which is articulated in the same spot as /k/. It's an easy sound for English speakers to pick up. And the English glottal stop is produced farther back in the throat than any Russian sound.

(The vowel represented by ы is strange, but not produced farther forward in the mouth than /u/, which both English and Russian have.)

[philena.livejournal.com]

I think this isn't nonsense. It could be a combination of place of articulation and also that Russians don't open their mouths when they speak as much as Americans do. This happens in French, also--in fact, a French phonetics professor once told me that they were taught as children to keep their mouths closed when speaking (which also explains the loud American stereotype, to some extent--when our mouths are open wider, more sound comes out).

In terms of place of articulation, Russian vowel reduction reduces many vowels to a simple schwa, which is farther back in the mouth than vowels like /i/, /e/, and the "a" in the word "hat," (which can be pronounced in English even when they aren't stressed). Palatalization of alveolars--s, z, d, t, n, l, and r, to name a few, also pushes them farther back in the mouth than their unpalatalized counterparts. So what we have here is large variety of vowels and consonants that are pronounced, if not farther back than all English sounds, farther back than many English counterparts, combined with a much more closed mouth that prevents the sound from escaping and shortens the oral cavity a little, in the same way that sounds produced in the back of the mouth do. The result is an impression of a combination of sounds both farther back than the average combination of English sounds, even if they aren't produced on the rear part of the tongue and throat, and of sounds which are prevented from escaping as freely by the more closed mouth.

[cheetr.livejournal.com]

I don't think it has anything to do with the phonemes. I think it has everything to do with listening to someone speak Russian and trying to make it English. I can read Russian great. But if I'm conversing and I try to translate every word into English, I get behind and eventually lose track or just look like an idiot standing there staring at someone. I just try to forget that I know English.

[philena.livejournal.com]

Oh, I agree with you entirely. The first 'it' in my second sentence was not referring to the difficulty of understanding, but rather to the impression that Russian sounds are farther back in the mouth. Certainly by the time we're trying to understand normal spoken Russian we are familiar enough with the phonemes not to be caused trouble by them in perception. THe problem, just as you say, is not knowing how to listen to the Russian, and trying to make it into English.

[gnomygnomy.livejournal.com]

Goooooooo linguistics! Yay!! :D

[gjertsen.livejournal.com]

When I was in moscow I discovered two things:
a)the better I knew the person speaking russian, the better I was able to pick up what they were saying. Since most of my friendships with russians were with those that spoke english very well, it wasn't that I had more experience with their russian, but that when they were speaking russian to others I had a feel for their expressions, manner of speaking, etc. My best break-throughs in following conversations were listening to my friend Max speak in russian, I just felt like I knew him so well, I found myself understanding the words as well as the nuances.
b)I also found that some russians who spoke some english understood my english much better as we knew each other for longer. For instance, I had a colleague I worked with closely and another american came up and tried to talk to him. She'd say something in english, he'd look at me confused, and I would just repeat it in english and he would suddenly understand, because he'd spent so much time with me.
Non face-to-face conversations are very difficult in any foreign language. I've tried to talk on the phone in english a few times to russians who I've spent a lot of time talking to...and the phone conversations are incredibly confusing.
As for listening, it's a totally different activity than creating sentences and I find it easier to understand spoken russian that I do to speak it or write it. It's a lot easier to do it I've found, in situations in which expecatations are low and no one thinks you understand any russian. And let's be honest, russian ticket sellers, shopkeepers, waitresses, etc. are not always the most patient and encouraging people...
When I was working with russians and being translated for on a regular basis (which can be sooooooooo time-consuming) a semi-regular event was a russian asking a question in russian, me understanding the question and answering in english and the translator translating my answer. It's a lot faster that way, and of course, in listening you have all these other clues -- the persons face, the topics being discussed, gestures, etc...