...and a stupid question--thanks for your patience

[hopeinagpa.livejournal.com]

When to use "тоже" and when to use "также"? One teacher told me to just forget about the distinction for now and just use "тоже" for a catchall, another one suggested a simplified "также" is for following verbs, but I haven't seen it used with any.

Now for the stupid question:
What exactly is "ого"--or perhaps what kind of expression is it? and how is it pronounced/where is the stress?

Comments

[herlordshipness.livejournal.com]

I've only taken one year of Russian, but I learned that тоже was for things like "Me, too/also" and также was for "I did this today, I also did this, etc." If that makes sense...

[irishotel.livejournal.com]

также=тоже
ого=WOW! -> stress on the second O. proonounced like "ogO!"

[buddah-gautama.livejournal.com]

"Тоже" & "также" are very similiar... So, u can use both of... But "тоже" is a little more simple, "также" little more official...

ОГО is WOW! "огО!"

[hopeinagpa.livejournal.com]

Yes, thanks. I guess that corresponds with "the verb thing" that my other teacher was talking about in relation to "также". I just figured there was more to the story.

[hopeinagpa.livejournal.com]

so it ends up being more like "ago" taking in account the unstressed "o"?

[hopeinagpa.livejournal.com]

So, a little like the distinction between "и" and "а"?

[irishotel.livejournal.com]

precisely

[herlordshipness.livejournal.com]

yeah, so basically тоже is for a situation you could use "too" instead of also.

[herlordshipness.livejournal.com]

i thought it was more like 'avo' b/c the г was de-voiced, or something.

[irkin.livejournal.com]

I never have heard such pronunciation. I say "ogO" :)

[irishotel.livejournal.com]

not at all.
it sometimes may sound close to 'ohO'..

[ex-ex-zhuzh.livejournal.com]

I'd say тоже and также are different. E.g.

Я тоже люблю икру и устриц: I, too, like caviar and oysters (as do other people)
Я также люблю икру и устриц: I also like caviar and oysters (in addition to other food)

I think the following schemes are correct:

an object тоже belongs to a set, in addition to other objects
an object также has these properties, in addition to other properties

There might be other cases, I ca't think of any right now.

«ого» is an expression of astonishment, like "wow". The stress is on the second syllable, and «г» is often pronounced like English "h".

[zhp.livejournal.com]

There is a variant of pronouncing the "г" in ого! and ага! (colloquial 'yes') as sort of a voiced "Х" (similar to the way people in Ukraine and southern Russia say their "г"s)

[sema.livejournal.com]

"Taкже" could be substituted with "ещё (и)", "в то же время" while "тоже" could not, compare:

---

У меня есть брат, а также сестра.
Я учусь в институте, а также работаю.

---

У меня есть брат, у тебя тоже.
В этом году я не поступил в институт, в прошлом - тоже.

[ex-ex-zhuzh.livejournal.com]

Oh, and the first o in ого is pronounced like o, not like a, probably because it has secondary stress (or something, I'm no phonologist).

[hopeinagpa.livejournal.com]

great! schemes--i love schemes. thanks.

[hopeinagpa.livejournal.com]

yay extra info. much appreciated.

[wolk-off.livejournal.com]

In Russian "scheme" (схема) means "diagram" or "plan" and is wiely used in this sense. It does not mean "intrigue," like in English. This is why many Russians use this English word with wrong meaning, and this is why many English speakers misunderstand them :)

[fucking--snow.livejournal.com]

i would say that также is "as well as"

[wolk-off.livejournal.com]

Note that this is a set expression "а также", not just "также".

[hopeinagpa.livejournal.com]

And is "ого" a kind of all-purpose wow or does there exist many nuances in usage?

[hopeinagpa.livejournal.com]

Ah. that kind of scheme--I actually hadn't even thought about the intrigue part--I just thought I needed to expand my grammatical lexicon. Thanks for the clear-up.

[wolk-off.livejournal.com]

Note that there is a difference between "также" and "а также", the latter being a set expression with the meaning "as well as". It is widely used in official speech: "на встрече присутствовали министр обороны и министр внутренних дел, а также министр сельского хозяйства" - the meeting was attended by the minister of defense and the interior minister, as well as by the minister of agriculture.

[buddah-gautama.livejournal.com]

It's all purpose "wow", I would say... :)

[hopeinagpa.livejournal.com]

So then does just "также" go with zhuzh's example:

Я также люблю икру и устриц: I also like caviar and oysters (in addition to other food)

[hopeinagpa.livejournal.com]

But you wouldn't use it, for instance, as something to replace "ah ha" e.g.:

Ah ha! I found my something that I lost three years ago!

[buddah-gautama.livejournal.com]

It's possible... But, as far as I know, I can say: "Wow! I found my smt... etc..."
By the way, we have expression "агА" (some pronounce it almoust like "ахА"), and it means "yes" in "vulgar russian"

[sema.livejournal.com]

Yes, but I suppose not in this case:

У меня есть брат. Также у меня есть сестра.
Я учусь в институте. Также я работаю.

[wolk-off.livejournal.com]

No way. This is just bad Russian. You cannot start a sentence with также, though this sign of bad literacy is, alas, widely spread now.

[ex-ex-zhuzh.livejournal.com]

Oops... schemas, not schemes.

[lurid-me.livejournal.com]

My professor explained that тоже refers back towards the subject in a sentance while также refers forward towards the object.

Please forgive that I don't have examples. I just woke up and I'm going back to bed. I will post some later if you wish :)

[oryx_and_crake]

I think it should be "я люблю устрицы", not "я люблю устриц".

[hopeinagpa.livejournal.com]

Well, I better just adopt a new set of colloquialisms or stop making as much sound. heh.

[hopeinagpa.livejournal.com]

Actually, that's ok. I think it makes sufficient sense from your explanation alone.

[ashalynd.livejournal.com]

On the contrary: "я люблю устриц" is correct, but the first one is not. Я люблю (кого? что?) устриц. Устрицы are living things, that is why this form of Accusativ is used. A couple more examples: Я вижу устриц, коров, воробьев. But: я вижу дома. (I see oysters, cows, sparrows; I see houses).

[oryx_and_crake]

No, I don't think so.
Of course, the grammar rules you quote are correct. But they are not applicable in this case, because you love oystes not as living animate creatures, but as food.

[ashalynd.livejournal.com]

Well, for me, it just feels wrong. But I've not been to Russia for the last 5 years. May be that is the way people speak now. I'd still say Я люблю креветок (I love shrimps) but Я люблю сосиски (I love sausages) and the only explanation I can come up with is that shrimps are, or have been, living things, but sausages is a product and therefore was never a living thing (at least when it was, it was not called a sausage :) ) In the internet both variants for oysters are present anyway.

[apollotiger.livejournal.com]

If it were devoiced, that would make it ‘ako’.

[oryx_and_crake]

For me "я люблю устриц" feels wrong. Well, you can say so about these particular two oysters you call Jack and Jill and keep in your fishtank and feed daily; but as for those that lie in a heap on your plate, no, I don't think so.

[oryx_and_crake]

it's more like "О-гО" - the first "o" has some extent of stress on it, too, so it does not sound like "a".

[oryx_and_crake]

"Я люблю креветок" sounds more or less correct to me, maybe because the shrimps are more, like, separate animate beings. Actually, it is a gray area in grammar, and not necessarily adheres to strict rules "living/non-living". In the same way "труп" (cadaver) and "мертвец" (dead person) are both dead (i.e. not living), but from the linguistic point of view one of them is animate and the other one is not, because you will say "я вижу труп" but "я вижу мертвеца".

[cema.livejournal.com]

Sort of.

[buddah-gautama.livejournal.com]

Good decision...:)

[ashalynd.livejournal.com]

When the труп was living it was not called a труп.

But I agree, it is a grey area where personal preferences matter.

[hopeinagpa.livejournal.com]

And I do believe that in English shrimp are not counted, just like sheep--as in, not shrimps or sheeps.

[tikvi.livejournal.com]

My prof. basically said, "One person, two actions= также. Two people, one action=тоже." Some of the other uses still confuse me, but oh well....

[branwen.livejournal.com]

I never heard of "scheme" meaning "intrigue" in English.
http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=scheme

[lurid-me.livejournal.com]

great, glad to help :)