(no subject)

[padruka1988.livejournal.com]

So I've recently started attending an Orthodox church in our city... It's Greek Orthodox, but because it's the only Orthodox church in our city, there are members from Russia and Ukraine (as well as other countries where Orthodoxy is one of the more common faiths). Anyway, there is a very nice lady (maybe about 60 years old) who is Ukrainian, and she talks to me in the best English that she can. After a bad experience, I'm afraid to ask someone if they speak Russian... And though I know for certain she speaks Russian... I'm afraid to bust out with, "Здрасте :)))" or "Доброе утро!"...

My bad experience = I was at a shop one time when I heard a family speaking in Russian (they were young parents + small child). I said something like, "Вы из России?" in a very nice, friendly way... But also in a very quiet, shy way. The man turned bright red and said in rather good English, "Yes, I suppose you were listening to everything we said?" And I just said, "Oh, no, I'm just studying Russian and I get excited when I hear other people speaking it. ::insert friendly smile::" And he said in a, what I understood as, rather sarcastic tone, "Well, good for you." There have been several instances where I've said, "Вы из России?" to someone, and they are absolutely flattered that an American actually can speak a second language... And we go on to exchange phone numbers and chat in Russian.

Is it offensive to ask someone this? I don't really see why it would be!

Anyway, so when I do get up the courage to speak with her in my quite imperfect Russian... What would be some appropriate "churchy" greetings in Russian? Any phrases for like, "Happy [insert her saint's name] Day!" or any other congratulatory phrases for holidays, feasts, etc... Are much appreciated.

Another similar question to the story listed above... My boyfriend and his family are Russian, and I typically speak to his parents only in Russian ("speak" as hi, how are you, etc...). His mom speaks very, very, very little English... But his stepdad is fluent in English. I speak to him in Russian out of habit... But do you think this would be considered rude? As in, "You can't speak English so let me talk to you in your native language." If someone knew I spoke English and only spoke to me in English (this would happen in a Russian-speaking country), I would be upset because I want to learn Russian and I would feel like they think my Russian isn't adequate enough. OR am I just over-analyzing?

Comments

[irishotel.livejournal.com]

Hello :)
Of course it is very flattering to hear people trying to speak your language to you! It is not rude at all! I think that russian in the shop was speaking probably some personal things which he didn't wxpect to share with anyone except his family, and so just was 'frightened' because you might understand him..
In church, there are no such chuchy words in russian.. Say Добрый день. I'm sure she will bw happy to hear it!

[oryx_and_crake]

I hope this man was not really sarcastic; maybe he just got the intonation wrong. I, for one, hated like hell when people stick my first name into their phrases when speaking to me in English, and with this specific intonation - it sounded terribly sarcastic and patronising, as if they meant to say "what kind of stupid name could that be!". I always wanted to tell them off properly for that or complain to their supervisor. But later I read that it was even recommended for people like customer service and similar positions - it is meant to be kind of polite and making a rapport to a customer, not rude at all. So, maybe this man did not really mean to be sarcastic or rude.

As to the churchy greeting, I don't know any, except for the week after Easter when you greet everybody with "Христос воскресе!" (Christ is risen!)


Now to your boyfriend's father, I think if you tell him outright that you want to practice Russian and that's why you speak to him in Russian, he won't mind at all. Besides, since his wife does not know any English, it will only be polite to speak in a language that all persons present will understand.

[malaya-zemlya.livejournal.com]

I somehow suspect that the familyin the shop were discussing you behind your back, thinking they can get away with that. After being caught they just kept on acting like assholes.

Other than cases like this one, asking "Вы из России?" is perfectly fine.

Anyway, so when I do get up the courage to speak with her in my quite imperfect Russian... What would be some appropriate "churchy" greetings in Russian?
Can't think of any, except you address the priest as Батюшка.
Easter greeting is "Христос воскресе!" (and the set answer is "Воистину воскресе")
On Orthodox Christmans you would say "С Рождеством Христовым!"
that's about it...

I don't think the old lady would mind you speaking to her in Russian, but, as an extra courtesy, you might want to greet her in Ukrainian
See http://wikitravel.org/en/Ukrainian_phrasebook

[wolk-off.livejournal.com]

Well, if you know that the old lady is certainly Ukrainian (i.e. speaks Ukrainian as her native language,) you can greet her in her language - something like "здоровенькi були, як вашi справи?" (hello, how are you?) - and don't forget that Ukrainian и is Russian ы :) Some Ukrainians, especially those whose families emigrated from Western Ukraine before, or during, or right after the WWII, tended not to speak Russian, even if they could. Some younger Ukrainians (who emigrated in the 1990s) could not speak Russian, because this language wasn't taught in most Ukrainian schools after 1992 (or was taught on a limited basis.) The others can speak Russian all right, or, even if they are from Ukraine, Russian is their native language (there is about 40 per cent of ethnic Russians in Ukraine, especially in its southern and eastern parts,) so you never can tell :) But I'm pretty sure that simple "добрый день!" will do in any case, especially in church :)

[noser.livejournal.com]

In an Orthodox church, they usually greet each other with "С пр́аздником!" on Sundays and other holidays. This works for most holidays, except the Easter and following few week when the greeting and the answer are "Христ́ос воскр́есе!" - "Во́истину воскр́есе!".If you happen to wander into a church on a regular day, usual greetings are fine.

In any case, you can greet people just by smiling and bowing slightly to them (or nodding, if you prefer :), especially during the service, when people are not supposed to talk to each other.

[ashalynd.livejournal.com]

Some Russian people living abroad do not feel at ease if an unknown person starts to speak Russian to them. There are many reasons for that, I am not going to go into them. So I guess that those people could just be plain scared or at least embarassed.

I think if one of your boyfriend's parents can barely speak English and you speak Russian to both of them then you are actually earning extra points, as your boyfriend's father never feels awkward with you because of the conversation in which his wife could not participate.

I also do not know any special church greetings. I think Здравствуйте should be enough for a regular occasion :) Only take care not to say Привет in church, it is too colloquial.

With that lady in the church I think you are safe to start speaking in Russian as she already knows who you are. If her English is also not perfect then she will get more relaxed speaking to you in her native language (if her mother tongue really is Russian, of course).

[suku-vse.livejournal.com]

Well ... mostly, people don't realize I'm Russian until I tell them or start speaking:) I mean I don't look like one. Maybe because Russian women are pretty careful about their looks and I'm a shleper.

One day I was standing outside the store, waiting for my husband, and a woman passed by, scolding her little son in Russian. She definitely didn't take me into account and was embarassed when I started speaking Russian to my kids. (coudn't help it, sorry)

[padruka1988.livejournal.com]

As for, "...if she really speaks Russian...", yes, I'm sure she speaks Russian. Depending upon the day (weekday liturgies are shorter than Sunday liturgies, so this happens mainly on Sunday), the priest will ask (before the service) if certain people could recite the Lord's Prayer in their native language. It MUST be their native language (I would never be able to recite it in Russian in the Church). I was there one day when the priest announced, "The Lord's Prayer will be said in first English, then Greek, then Russian, then Arabic." And she said it in Russian. I believe she immigrated here right after the fall of the USSR.

[kart.livejournal.com]

Once a pair of students (девч0нки) walked past where I was seated in a coffee shop. They were speaking Russian and making comments on who was cute and things like that. So, they walked past where I was, and of course there was some playful commentary. I'm usually not so suave, and I am quite horrible at Russian, but I tried:

-- Что бы ты сказала, если бы я понял?
-- *turns red*

[ars-longa.livejournal.com]

Well, if I was speaking Russian and someone asked me am I from Russia, I wouldn't be rude, of course, but the person who was asking would have been treated to a rather lenghty lecture about how not everyone who speaks Russian is from Russia. :) It sometimes pisses me off a bit, since I was in Russia for, I think, about a month (cumulatively) in all my life and didn't exactly enjoy the experience.

[wolfie-18.livejournal.com]

Ah yes, but then what would we ask in that case?

"Hey um... вы говорите по-русски?" And the reply would be a general thought of "Duh, stupid, didn't you just hear me speaking it?" (as this actually happened to me and I felt really retarded after asking the question)

and if not all people who speak Russian are from Russia, then what would we ask?

"Вы из какой страны предыдущего СССР?" :P Not quite.

[wolfie-18.livejournal.com]

Ha! That's classic.

[wolfie-18.livejournal.com]

Sorry if I can't add anything of any importance to the already well-said comments, but I just wanted you to know that I'm in that same exact boat whenever I know someone is Russian but... you don't really know whether or not you should speak to them in Russian. In North Miami Beach, there's this Russian section of town, and I once went to a shop and it's embarrassing because they all know fluent English and Russian, and I only know English and some Russian. So it's like... should I just speak to them in English instead?

Once, this lady asked me if I wanted to buy or rent a movie I had picked out. I didn't know there was a renting option, so I started thinking for a while. Then she got really like, impatient and she goes "КУПИТЬ ИЛИ ВЗЯТЬ НА ПРОКАТЕ? BUY OR RENT?" I was so taken aback that I was... lost for a second. I felt like saying "БУДЬТЕ ТЕРПЕЛИВA!" but I didn't know hot to say that at the time. That kind of ruined it for me and my love for Russians for a while, and now I'm shy again. That bitch.

ANYWHO, I feel you.

[wolfie-18.livejournal.com]

*Терпеливы

[malaya-zemlya.livejournal.com]

Yes, national identity can be a touchy subject, especially after USSR collapsed. As a stopgap measure you can ask "Вы говорите по русски?" and then "Вы откуда?"

On the other hand, this goes both ways. Try mistaking Scottish and Irish accents some day 8 )

Btw, why were you asking "Вы из России?" while _in_ Russia?

[malaya-zemlya.livejournal.com]

Russian salespeople are often rude, to Russians and foreigners alike, especially the ones that were salespeople in Russia. This is a holdover from communist times.

You are fully allowed to snap back. Just don't do it in Russian, because there she will have an unfair advantage.

(Or if you feel really adventurous and want to learn many new and exciting Russian expressions, you can try answering "Не дворянка, потерпишь". The effect is amazing >;)

[malaya-zemlya.livejournal.com]

She?
The priest was a woman???

[ars-longa.livejournal.com]

Btw, why were you asking "Вы из России?" while _in_ Russia?

Me???

[ars-longa.livejournal.com]

"Vy otkuda?" asked in Russian would be sufficient for me. ;) Just as "Where are you from?" asked in English.

[oryx_and_crake]

No, I guess "she" is the old lady in question.
And, by the way, the fact that she chose Russian version of "Our Father" does not mean that she speaks Russian, but only that she prefers Church Slavonic to Greek and English, since Ukrainian and Belorussian churches use Church Slavonic in the service, too.
Some people from Ukraine, especially elderly ones, dislike Russian language for nationalistic reasons, even though they know it.

[oryx_and_crake]

it will be бывшего СССР, not предыдущего.
Предыдущего means preceding and implies that there is another, current USSR now, which that one preceded.

[oryx_and_crake]

It's OK to say Привет in church if you say it to your friends whom you will greet in the same way if you met them in the street.
It is probably not OK to say Привет to old ladies, church or not, if you are not closely acquainted.
And it is definitely not OK to say Привет or to smile and wave during the service. If you see someone you know, you can just nod to them and postpone all the other kinds of greetings till the service is over.

[wolfie-18.livejournal.com]

Hahahahahaha!!!!!

Wow... I can only imagine the look on her face. Remember, I'm very young. I wouldn't want to seem like some insolent brat. But man! I will keep that for later use... thanks!

[ducking.livejournal.com]

I personally get really annoyed when people try to make an impression by saying random words of Russian to me (it usually gets down to the stereotypes and the pronunciation is always nothing but dreadful). That is totally embarassing, I absolutely hate it. And I have to smile and encourage them instead of telling them to shut up. Sheesh.

[maymak.livejournal.com]

A couple of congratulatory phrases:
Счастливого Рождества! - Merry Christmas!
С днем Святого Валентина! - Happy Valentine's Day!

Here in Russia we only celebrate the Valentine's Day, at least everybody knows the date and what it is about. But you can use other saints' names, of course. When I say "we" I mean people like me, far away from any church or confession :)

Христос воскрес! - Воистину воскрес! - it's in the comments...
What else?... One of my friends who is an archpriest simply writes "С Праздником, Катя!" for any churchly holy day (sorry for "churchly" and "holy" together, I just want to show that it's not just a holiday, but a holy day :)). Катя is my name :) And he writes "Праздник", not "праздник", because it's a big day for him.

I think you can use "С Вознесением Господним!" for the Ascension of Christ, "С Крещением Господним!" for the Epiphany and so on.
Sorry, I'm not a religious person at all so I can make mistakes, but if you ask about exact holidays and feasts, it'll be easier :)

I hope it'll help you :)

[padruka1988.livejournal.com]

I was never in Russia. I was in a shop in my city... which is in the United States.

[malaya-zemlya.livejournal.com]

Ah. Got it.

[padruka1988.livejournal.com]

No, I don't think you understood. People who are asked to say the Lord's Prayer are... not like YOU MUST DO THIS OR DIE, but in a sense... REQUIRED to say it in their native language. One of the backings behind this is that the church is Greek Orthodox, but since it is the only Orthodox church in our community, we try to make it Greek-Russian-Ukrainian-every other Orthodox on the face of the planet. We absolutely do not want it to seem like "a Greek thing" (after all, that's what Kappa Kappa Psi and the other frats/sororities are for)... And also, as Orthodox believers are opposed to speaking in tongues and all other forms of not being able to understand each other (because we believe EVERYONE should be able to understand), we want everyone to speak the language they feel the most comfortable with... and almost all of the time, that would be one's native language (given that they didn't speak it until they were 5, then they immigrated somewhere else). No matter how proficient I ever become in Russian, I can never say that prayer in Russian at this particular church... I would have to say it in English because that is the language I pray in, and I will probably always pray in English because it's always been that way.

[oryx_and_crake]

Sorry, I don't understand this comment at all. Maybe you misunderstood me.
The prayer language in Ukrainian Ortodox Church, as well as in Russian Orthodox Church, is Old Church Slavonic. So, if someone asked me to say "Our Father", I would say it in Old Church Slavonic, because it is the language I pray in. I am sure that the old lady whom we discusssed, since she is supposedly from Ukraine, also prays in Old Church Slavonic. (Not Russian and not Ukrainian.) I don't understand what does "YOU MUST DO THIS OR DIE" mean in this context. I was not speaking about you and I was not suggesting you to switch to Russian in your prayers. (Thus would be especially difficult since, as I have mentioned, the prayer language of Russian Othodox Church is not Russian, but Church Slavonic.)