(no subject)

[wolfie-18.livejournal.com]

I can never tell when the imperative of an -ить verb ends in и (говорить - говори(те)) or ть (заметить - заметь(те)). Is there any rule that tells one when to use one over the other?

Also, does one really use the present *passive* participle? As in, out of all the participles that there are, right that the past passive participle is used most often? (it seems to be that way in English)

Comments

[gera.livejournal.com]

As to the first one I don't recall any rule.

As to second one: active present participles are used quite often.

Example: Мы смотрели на проезжающие за окном машины.

[wolfie-18.livejournal.com]

Pardon me, I meant present passive participles.

[dr-s.livejournal.com]

It must depend on the stress pattern. Compare:
говорить -- говори
купить -- купи
лечить -- лечи
ходить -- ходи
but
заметить -- заметь
взвесить -- взвесь
пометить -- пометь

I could not invent any counterexamples so far.

[gera.livejournal.com]

Yes, you are right past passive participles are used far more oten than present passive ones.
Still the latter one are used at times:

Всеми почитаемый писатель
Управляемый самолёт

Although grammatically they are participles they are in fact used as adjectives.

correction

[dr-s.livejournal.com]

In the second pattern (stress in the infinitive is on the stem) the imperative may still end on и rather than ь if the stem contains a consonant cluster:
кончить --- кончи
портить --- порти

Slightly offtopic

[temcat.livejournal.com]

Вот по дороге едет ЗИМ,
И им я буду задавим! :-)

This is a humorous two-liner from "Monday begins on Saturday" by Strugatskiye. It shows that in the short form, the participle can even be used in future tense. (It's not very common, though, and not all verbs can possibly form such a participle - the "задавИм" form does not exist, therefore the humorous effect.)

An example with past tense with participle in the same form:

Серый котейка блевал огурцом,
Был обзываем подлецом.

Mmm, probably not exactly appetizing :-/ but very demonstrative ;-)

Imperative Formation

[giantantattack.livejournal.com]

There is an imperative formation rule for all verbs.

1. Conjugate the verb into the third person plural (present tense for imperfective, future tense for perfective).
2. Remove the last two letters.
3. If the stem you are left with ends in a vowel, add й and place the accent where it would normally be in the third person plural conjugation. If it ends in a consonant, continue to step 4.
4. Refer to the accent placement on the first person singular conjugation.
5. If the accent is on the stem of the verb (i.e. the part that does not change through all the conjugations), add ь and place the accent where it would be in the first person singular conjugation. If the accent is on the end of the verb (i.e. the part that does change through all the conjugations), add и and place the accent on the final и.

It's a little long-handed, but I've found it gets much easier as you work with it.

Re: Imperative Formation

[giantantattack.livejournal.com]

I should mention there are some irregular imperatives that cannot be formed using this rule. Verbs like убить, шить, пить, etc. The imperative form of this type of verb end in -ей (убей, шей, пей, etc.). The stems in these cases end in ь (убь-, шь-, пь-, etc.). In the process I outlined above, ь doesn't get classified as a consonant.

This is the only irregularity in the rule of which I'm aware, but it's certainly possible that others exist. I encourage others to try to come up with some so I can make note of them. :-)

More Irregularities

[giantantattack.livejournal.com]

Anything ending in

-давать, -знавать, or -ставать becomes -давай, -знавай, or -ставай, respectively.

-дать becomes -дай

-есть becomes -ешь.

And, when not prefixed, ехать shares the same imperative as поехать (поезжай). When prefixed, verbs of motion ending in -ехать and -езжать share the same imperative ending (-езжай).

Re: correction

[ob-ivan.livejournal.com]

wrong.
Zaliznyak states firmly, that for verb in -ить with two or more consonants before it imperative ending is -и. template given for this case is ездить. it's singular imperative is езди, not ездь.

Re: correction

[yozhevich.livejournal.com]

I'm aware... it just sounded amusing to me. :) However, I wouldn't want anyone to get confused, so I deleted my comment.