(no subject)

[euphor.livejournal.com]

Hi everyone!
This is my first post here.
First of all I wanna introduce myself:
My name is Slava I'm 22 y.o. from St-Petersburg Russia.

I found this community by chance and it amazed me to learn how many people are interested in studying our language. A very difficult one indeed!
I'd love to help you in your studying process.
You're welcome!

Well... what else should I write here?...
Lemme think....

Ah! I know!

Many Russians make a very vulgar mistake in pronunciation:
There is a verb Звонить in meaning - to call up smb. - the stressed vowel is и
sv in other forms are: позвонит, позвонят, позвоним
Some Russians say: позвонит, позвонят, позвоним

Well... both ways of proninciation are eligible, but if you choose the first one, You'll be regarded as a very well educated person.

Good luck!

Comments

[leonya.livejournal.com]

both ways of proninciation are eligible

It's a bit off topic, but I don't think you can use the word "eligible" in this sentence. You can say "correct" instead. Just "ok" will do as well:)

As far as "zvOnit/zvonIt", it's my understanding that "zvOnit" is incorrect, at least by conventional grammar standards. I personally prefer "zvOnit" to "zvonIt", though:)

[euphor.livejournal.com]

The problem is that many people understand that "zvOnit" is incorrect, but still use it :)

p.s.
Thanks for correcting my mistake.

[shalapanova.livejournal.com]

Anyway, they are discussing problems about translation, not pronunciation.
I wish them all good luck!

[gailochka.livejournal.com]

Yep, I agree, and in general we tend to believe "native speakers" but you should remember that being native doesn't necessarily mean being correct in pronouncing and writing Russian words and phrases...

Be careful :))

[kart.livejournal.com]

This is a good topic. There is often more than one way to pronounce Russian word. It's always good to know the "correct" way to say a word, so that you won't give the wrong impression to people when speaking. My grandmother referred to speaking this way as чистий русский.

As a non-native speaker, your safest choice generally to try to pronounce things the way people talk in Moscow and Petersburg.

General things I've noticed about pronounciation: the further north you go, the less that speakers reduce their unstressed vowels. As you go further south and west, the г's get softer.

[solito.livejournal.com]

The modern vocabularies already mark the form "звОнит" as acceptable, mainly because of it's wide usage in the language. Whatever you (we) do, the language is made by people speaking that language.

Interesting that the bias regarding this word existed many years ago - see here, for example.

http://www.gramota.ru/dic/search.php?word=%E7%E2%EE%ED%E8%F2%FC&lop=x&gorb=x&efr=x&zar=x&ag=x&ab=x&lv=x&pe=x&az=x

Словарь трудностей
ЗвонИть, звонЮ, звонИт (не рекомендуется звОнит); прич. звонЯщий (неправильно звОнящий). Писатели и большинство современной интеллигенции решительно осуждают ударение звОнит, позвОнит. "Приходится, однако, признать, - сожалеет писатель Б. Тимофеев, - что это ударение - увы! - весьма прочно вошло в нашу бытовую разговорную речь. Так говорят и школьники, следовательно, ни дома, ни в школе их никто не поправляет. Печально..." (Правильно ли мы говорим?). А вот что пишет другой писатель Л. Раковский: "Патриарх ТЮЗа А. А. Брянцев рассказал мне об одном телефонном разговоре. Ему позвонили из школы: - Вам звОнит преподавательница... - Не верю! - прервал Александр Александрович и повесил трубку на рычаг. Через минуту снова звонок и снова: - Вам звОнит преподавательница... - Не верю! - и трубка опять повешена. В третий раз звонок: - Товарищ Брянцев, вам звОнит преподавательница.. Почему вы не верите? - Не верю, чтобы преподаватель мог неправильно говорить - звОнит, - ответил в последний раз А. А. Брянцев". Другого мнения придерживаются некоторые языковеды. "Запрет ударения звОнит, - полагает специалист в области акцентологии В. Редькин, - носит явно искусственный характер" ("Русская речь". 1971. № 4).

[quem98.livejournal.com]

The biggest problem with learning Russian in American Universities, is that there is a lot of focus on grammar, and very little instruction in phonetics. Therefore, most Americans get to Russia and have abysmal pronunciation, not by any fault of their own.

It's a wake up call for all of us when we come to Russia for the first time.

On a completely unrelated note, I adore Petersburg. I spent my Junior year of College there and fell in love with the city. I'm trying to put some grant money together do research there in the fall.

[wolk-off.livejournal.com]

With a really heavy heart and more than a bit of compassion I would LLLOVE to remind that the working language of this community is English, and if you post or comment in Russian, you are expected to provide a comprehensive Englsih translation as well.

That's life.

St.Pete

[wolk-off.livejournal.com]

You might like this (http://www.livejournal.com/community/cityscapes/575301.html) :)

[solito.livejournal.com]

This is such a big one - and also that's a quote from the vocabulary, isn't it?

Дяденька, ногами не бейте плиз, I will do I promise... :)

[morgenstern180.livejournal.com]

absolutely, and that's not only true for Russian, of course... I think the lack of instruction in things like the international phonetic alphabet are partially to blame, and the fact that's it's just not easy to see/hear/read a lot of Russian in America (as opposed to some stuff here and there in French and Spanish, due to Mexico and Canada). Sad but true...

and good luck on getting back to St Petersburg!

[wolk-off.livejournal.com]

Yessir it IS big. Now imagine how big it is for those who learn_russian here :))

You could at the very least provide them with a brief digest :)

[wolk-off.livejournal.com]

>it's just not easy to see/hear/read a lot of Russian in America

Hmmm, there is at least one Russian radio station on the air in each big radio market, like Tri-State Area (Народная Волна,) Chicago (Эхо Москвы,) Greater Seattle (Радио Аврора,) Bay Area etc.
There also is a lot of Russian radio stations streaming over the Web, some of them are talk radios so you can enjoy the fast and indecipherable blah-blah-blah in Russian. Try Эхо Москвы: live (http://www.echo.msk.ru/sound.html); news-on-demand (http://www.echo.msk.ru/lastnews.html). The later is more useful because it's news which you can read along with the listening (http://www.echo.msk.ru/news/).

There always is an opportunity, I think.

[morgenstern180.livejournal.com]

Thanks for the info/links. the only non-english radio i can find around my area is in French or occasionally German. though of course the internet makes it a lot easier. =0)

There is always an opportunity, yes, but I just feel frustrated trying to find actual books and so on in Russian sometimes. Before I moved to my current residence I lived near a great used bookstore that had a fair amount of stuff in Russian, though.

[kart.livejournal.com]

For anyone living near Houston, look for Наш Техас (http://www.ourtx.com/).

Бесчеловечные, жестокие люди :)))))

[solito.livejournal.com]

Please accept my apologies - here is what I've promised.

The dictionary of difficulties
ЗвонИть, звонЮ, звонИт (not recommended звОнит); participle звонЯщий (incorrect звОнящий).
The writers and the majority of contemporary intelectuals strongly denounce the use of forms звОнит, позвОнит. The writer B. Timofeyev regrets this phenomenon: "We however have to accept that this form of accentuation - and it's a pity - substantially came into our spoken language. This is the way college student speak, and it means noone corrects them in the college or at home. It's sad..." (from the book "Do we speak correctly"). The writer L. Rakovsky adds: "A.Bryantsev, who was one of the main actors of the Youth Theater told me about one telephone conversation. It was a call from a school: "Вам звОнит преподавательница...(This is a school teacher calling...)" Alexander Bryantsev interrupted her: "I don't believe you" and hung up. She calls back in a minute and again: "Вам звОнит преподавательница...(This is a school teacher calling...)" - "I don't believe you" and again he hung up. And for the third time: "Comrade Bryantsev, Вам звОнит преподавательница... (This is a school teacher calling...) Why don't you believe me??" and he replied - "I can't believe a teacher could make this kind of mistake звОнит".
However, there are opposite opinions in this regard by some linguists. "The prohibition to accentuate звОнит is obviously artificial" says V.Redkin, a specialist in Russian accentology (see Russkaya Rech, 1971, Vol. 4)

[euphor.livejournal.com]

Thanks, I'll try to... :)

[euphor.livejournal.com]

Thanks!
You're absolutely right about the difference in pronounce in different Russian regions.
By the way, there are many differences even between Moscow and St. Pete.

In Moscow, for instance, they say: "Подъезд", in St. Pete "Парадная" - [doorway, street-door, entrance]

[euphor.livejournal.com]

Great example!

[quem98.livejournal.com]

also творог is pronounced differently in different places.
In Peter, its творОг, and in Moscow and other places твОрог.

About pronunciation, if you ask some people in Petersburg, their pronunciation is the only educated way to speak...

I'm always amused by the Moscow/Petersburg rivalry.

Re: St.Pete

[quem98.livejournal.com]

Squee!

My compliments!

[wolk-off.livejournal.com]

Thank you, O my good sir :)

[gailochka.livejournal.com]

:)) It was not actually you whom I tried to warn, I was rather adding to your warning addressed to those who learn Russian :)