(no subject)

[wolfie-18.livejournal.com]

Next on the agenda is Охотник Агей.

Well, I have a question on Russian entymology. If that's even how you spell it. Since last time we discussed за- verbs as to be lost in whatever is it they're doing, can забыть be twisted as to say "You're so lost in your own existence, that you forget?"

Vocab Time! Произнеси моё имя трижды и потри жемчужину.
Закрыл глаза и прыгнул в яму - только ветер засвистел в ушах!

And this phrase does not make any sense (this is after he met Марья-краса): С этого дня царь забросил все свои дела. Why would he do that, exactly?

And what interests me the most is the inconsistent use of tenses. I.e.:

- Кто ты? - спросил изумлённый царь. - И что здесь делаешь одна?
А Марья-краса сидит на крылечке домика и улыбается.

And I had other questions, but luckily for you, I forgot.

Comments

[simonff.livejournal.com]

Can't comment on the etymology.

потри - "rub once"

засвистел - "started to whistle"

"С этого дня царь забросил все свои дела" - "Since that day the tzar abandoned all his activities" (presumably, to stay with his beloved).

As for the inconsistent tenses, this somehow makes the phrases flow prettier. It sort of underlines what she was doing at the moment, takes the reader out of the normal story flow and thrusts him into that situation. I'd like to see a comment from a language scholar on this myself.

[ars-longa.livejournal.com]

There is no verb consistency in Russian in the same sense that English has. Whatsoever. It all depends on author's style and context.

I'd say it's the verb consistency rule that gives me most of my troubles in English. Such an alien concept, really... :)

[madrumos.livejournal.com]

i'm also very curious about the origins of the word забыть. in all of the other slavic languages that i'm familiar with, the word for "to forget" is related to the помнить-поминать stem, as would be expected. i love how in polish zapamienać means 'to forget', whereas in Russian the equivalent (запомнить) means exactly the opposite.

see the conjugation of потереть/потирать 'to rub'. потру, потрёшь, и т.д.

свистеть- to whistle. за here, like discussed before, implies beginning of an action.

there probably is some vague logic in the inconsistency of tenses here, but basically, like was said before, it just serves to liven up the narrative and involve the reader more. most often present tense is used in telling stories in Russian, it makes the story more alive, but here past is used as well.

[kalaus.livejournal.com]

- Кто ты? - спросил изумлённый царь. - И что здесь делаешь одна?
А Марья-краса сидит на крылечке домика и улыбается.
===
Cannot explain the inconsistency from the grammatical point of view. In English it would probably sound somewhat (but not exactly) like this: "But Marya-Krasa would just sit on the porch and smile."

[wolk-off.livejournal.com]

Right. That's my biggest trouble, you're not alone :)

[wolk-off.livejournal.com]

Yes, the verb consistency rule is a quite alien concept for Russian. In Russian, it's OK if one sentence includes all possible tenses, with no general rule applied except that the tenses have to reflect the actual sequence of events (happened in the past, happened now and "events to happen.") Since it's possible in one phrase, then what about a paragraph?

I know it's a shame that languages do not follow the rules of each other and thus do not nicely translate into each other "as is", but it's just life. If you only could imagine how strange and unnatural most of English phrases would sound for Russian ear, if we decided to translate them "as is", word by word!

[ekeme-ndiba.livejournal.com]

Yup! After 20 years of learning/speaking English, still have problems with verb consistency and -ng- sound (while -nk- causes no trouble at all).

[constpd.livejournal.com]

About the за- verbs. Remember, wolk_off gave the examples like заиграться, засмотреться, заслушаться? So, the word you're thinking about will be забыться / забываться. But the sense is not absolutely correct. Words забыться / забываться have two meanings:
1) to faint (забыться, забыться в обмороке) / to fall to sleep (забыться сном, negative context)
2) to forget about everything around.

offtopic

[capricosha.livejournal.com]

I'll permit myself to flood a little as everything you asked was already explained

The fact is that I don't remember the tale about охотник Агей :-) Will you remind me of it?

[yers.livejournal.com]

"To forget" in Slovak is zabudnúť.

[plumqqz.livejournal.com]

"запамятовать"...

[solito.livejournal.com]

This is so called "историческое настоящее (praesens historicum)", it is used in the environment of past tense and gives some narrative flavour. A very similar thing exists in Spanish.

¿Quién es? - preguntó el zar sorprendido
Más Maria no le responde nada, solamente sonríe

See more detailed grammar description here: http://artefact.lib.ru/languages/russian/1490-1515.html#1505

Re: offtopic

[solito.livejournal.com]

How? You don't remember this famous fairy tale about a gay hunter? :)))

[studentka-hb.livejournal.com]

It's totally irrelevant to yr post, but if yr interested entomology is 'the scientific study of insects', etymology might work better! It's to do with the origin of words, or according to www.thefreedictionary.com : 'The origin and historical development of a linguistic form as shown by determining its basic elements, earliest known use, and changes in form and meaning, tracing its transmission from one language to another, identifying its cognates in other languages, and reconstructing its ancestral form where possible.'
Erm, yes, and I'll go now!

Re: offtopic

[wolfie-18.livejournal.com]

solito is positively silly. It's a story about a hunter with a beautiful wife named Марья-краса, who is seen by a czar. The czar falls in love with her, and demands the hunter go leave and bring something back (-ступай туда -куда? -не знаю куда!) lest he chop his head off. Then enter fairy godmother, a pearl, a magical horn, a magical mirror, a домик turning into a замок, and chasing the czar away from the wife. The End!

Re: offtopic

[capricosha.livejournal.com]

I see. A mix of all known miracles and a Happy End in the end :-)

Re: offtopic

[capricosha.livejournal.com]

eeeerrrrr...... a gay hunter? :-))))

I thought you meant Федот-стрелец by Filatov

Re: offtopic

[solito.livejournal.com]

1) I am negatively silly, young man! 2) Your fairy tale is more like a Hollywood script...

[euphor.livejournal.com]

There is one more meaning for "забыться": be (so) bold, make (so) bold (with smb.)

- А что же было у вас дальше? Ночью? ;-)
- Вы забываетесь! :-|