Pronunciation

[sashwizzled.livejournal.com]

I've just started learning Russian, and I've got most of the Cyrillic alphabet leanred and how to pronounce it (thankfully, I've had no trouble with Р or Х, like everyone else in my class!), but I'm still having a bit of trouble with the Ы letter.
My textbook says it's pronounced like the i in ill, but my teacher says it's pronounced like you're trying to say the ee in feet, but you're forcing your tongue to the bottom of your mouth while you do it - when I do that, it sounds like I'm pronouncing the ai in aim.

Err, can someone help, please?

Comments

[gulya111.livejournal.com]

I think, you should try to pronounce it like y in usually.

[squodge.livejournal.com]

NO! It is NOT like the y in usually. It's actually the same as the 'e' in 'roses'. In the IPA, it's the crossed-out letter 'i'. It's almost halfway between an 'i' and an 'u', but not rounded.

~ squodge ~

[moon-aka-sun.livejournal.com]

Well, I can't tell you what to do with your tongue, but the sound should be like '' from http://www.paulmeier.com/ipa/charts.html --> Vowels. Just try to torture your tongue and throat different ways :) I hope it helps.

[margorand.livejournal.com]

Whether it's pronounced like the i in ill depends on the dialect of English that you speak... it'd be appropriate for some British accents where the l is slightly palatalised which would affect the i. But if you're American, don't use ill as your guide to pronouncing Ы.

I can pronounce it correctly using your teacher's example and am at a loss as to how to explain a better method... perhaps you should listen to other people saying Ы and just try and mimic it?

[margorand.livejournal.com]

But isn't the e in roses a schwa, for many people at least? So that's not Ы for everyone.

[quem98.livejournal.com]

It's pronounced in the back of the throat. Say "eee" and push it to the back of your throat? That's the best I can do without hearing the way you pronounce it. There just isn't an English equivalent of that sound.

[holyschist.livejournal.com]

It isn't an 'eh', either, which is what the 'e' in 'roses' sounds like to me.

[holyschist.livejournal.com]

I find it helps to widen my mouth and tighten my throat, but there really is no English equivalent.

[xantha.livejournal.com]

I was taught to sorta say 'eee' but to flatten out my lips into an almost straight line and widen them a lot. it's a very weird way to do it I think, but the sound (based on my russian in laws pronunciation which is the russian i'm exposed to most these days) for me tends to be more correct than most.

[nbuwe.livejournal.com]

[ы] is central (ɨ - "i with stroke"), not back (ɯ - "turned m"). As in Russian there's no back upper unrounded vowel, ɯ (back) is perceived and an allophone of ɨ (central) - the opposition is front [и] vs. "non-front" [ы]. In isolation, e.g. for the purpose of demonstratation to foreigners, most Russians will overdo the "push the tongue back" part of the articulation, and end up with ɯ (back) instead of ɨ (central), but in real connected speech nobody would bother to actually push the tongue that far back.

http://www.philol.msu.ru/rus/galya-1/nn/n39.htm
http://www.philol.msu.ru/rus/lena-1/vocal/avi/yi.avi

(main page: http://www.philol.msu.ru/rus/galya-1/index1.htm)

PS: I hope that &#...; references to IPA symbols come out right, as I can't see them in my browser.

[rimokon.livejournal.com]

lol <3 your icon. 8D

[rimokon.livejournal.com]

Nice Battle Royale icon. 8D

I was taught somewhere to so "OOH" but to keep your lips as if you're smiling and not to round them. ^^ It works pretty well for me.

[kutsuwamushi.livejournal.com]

Don't trust English examples--that sound doesn't even exist in English, like "p" and "x". It's halfway between "ee" and "oo".

If you're like me, all of the description in the world won't help you pronounce it correctly. You'll just have to listen to it as much as possible and try to emulate it. It'll come to you sooner or later.

For pronunciation in general, I found that singing along to Russian music helped a lot, because the words are often more drawn out and I had more time to get my tongue in the right places.

[mricon.livejournal.com]

Take a lolly-pop, put in your mouth, and say "eee". That's "ы". :)
(not kidding)

[moon-aka-sun.livejournal.com]

OK, that's the theory and I agree with you. I just listened to that particular speaker and chose the closest sound. Maybe he's not so good at 'ы' :) BTW /rus/lena-1/vocal/avi/yi.avi sounds perfect.

[idealforcolors.livejournal.com]

It might be helpful if you can get someone to say "слышать" (to hear) and "слушать" (to listen) over and over for you, or "быть" (to be) and "бить" (to beat), and mimic them.

[fint.livejournal.com]

pronounce it like "think" "Ы" is more hard then "И"
see - И
think - Ы

The thing is...

[apollotiger.livejournal.com]

there IS no English equivalent. A lot of the time it's reduced to a schwa (uh) just because it's being pronounced very fast. Ы is transliterated as "y," and it is a sort of guttural sound... the way I think of it is like so:

make a sort of a guttural, goofy "oy" noise. Like the heads in Spirited Away, if you've seen that movie. Then change from an oy to and uy or an eye sound... still just as guttural. And that's the sound.

[noser.livejournal.com]

Dunno. As a Russian native speaker I can say I hear both "i with stroke" and "turned m" as Ы. But "turned m" sounds more close. Actually, there's also a "Y" on the chart, which sounds like a perfect Ы to me.

[margaritka.livejournal.com]

hehe. i learned the sound by doing what you
suggest, but by using the combo of sounds
from 'uy'/'ooey'.

[kart.livejournal.com]

apollotiger is right. There simply is no equivalent sound in English.

The best way to learn pronounciation is to listen to native speakers and practice talking with them. Alternatively, listen to Russian music, radio, TV shows, etc.

Be aware, however, that ы does not sound the same in other languages. Several turkic languages use ы sort of like the undotted-i in Turkish. Listen to this Kazakh phrase, for instance.... Рахмет, жарайды, сау болыныз! (http://cali.arizona.edu/maxnet/kaz/kaz01/max00042.au) (translation: "thanks, see you later!")

[irkin.livejournal.com]

Listen to these:

мы (we): http://travlang.com/languages/russian/we.au
ты (you): http://travlang.com/languages/russian/you_sfam.au
вы (you plural): http://travlang.com/languages/russian/you_plur.au

[onodera.livejournal.com]

It's like a hard version of и.
torn - turkey
schon - schön (German)
быть - бить

Sound a little like a sound you emit when you try to scream while gagged.

[dzhozef-derfler.livejournal.com]

To me, Ы sounds like an ɨ (i with a storke) quickly followed by the sound of 'ee' in 'see'. In other words, a dipthong...but that's just how I hear it...