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learn_russianI know this will make Russian speakers laugh; it's a very silly question. Also, apologies - I'm on a work computer, and it doesn't seem to do Cyrillic fonts.
If I refer to Papa, or Vanya, or any other definitively masculine object with a feminine-sounding diminutive, would I say 'moy papa' or 'moya papa'? ie, does the gender flip according to the word, or not?
Thankyou...
If I refer to Papa, or Vanya, or any other definitively masculine object with a feminine-sounding diminutive, would I say 'moy papa' or 'moya papa'? ie, does the gender flip according to the word, or not?
Thankyou...
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no subject
Date: 2004-09-22 01:40 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2004-09-22 02:02 am (UTC)In addition of all previous comments - yes, just determine the gender of the object and then choose the correct variant:
If "male" - "moy", "tvoy", "moego", "tvoego", etc.
If "femail" - "moya", "tvoya", "moyu", "tvoy", etc.
no subject
Date: 2004-09-22 02:54 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2004-09-22 03:00 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2004-09-22 03:16 am (UTC)Moy papa
Moyego papy
Moyemu pape
Moyego papu
Moim papoy
Moyom pape
no subject
Date: 2004-09-22 04:11 am (UTC)Names, s.a. Vanya (Ваня), Znehya (Женя), Sasha (Саша), Vasya (Вася) etc can be both masculine and feminine. Vanya in Russia is a name for males, but in Bosnia, for example, it may be a name for women. If you talk about a female, you say,
Ваня была грустна, потому что она проиграла игру.
Vanya was sad, because she has lost the game.
Ваня был зол, потому что он не любил овощи.
Vanya was mad, because he didn't like vegetables.
Zhenya = Yevgeniy (Eugene) for a male or Yevgeniya for a female (Евгений/Евгения).
Sasha = Aleksandr (Alexander) for a male or Aleksandra (Alexandrea) for a female (Александр/Александра).
etc
So, when you talk about personal names, you always look who the person was - male or female. Sometimes, the last name could help you: for example, if somebody says Sasha Polyakova (Саша Полякова), then you know, it's she. If Sasha Polyakov (Саша Поляков) - it's he.
Drives you nuts, doesn't it? :)
Падежи (cases) с вопросами для одушевленных существительных мужского и женского рода на примере слов "папа"/"мама":
ПАПА
Именительный (nominative) — [кто?] мой папа
Родительный (genitive) — [кого?] моего папы
Дательный (dative) — [(даю) кому?] моему папе
Винительный (accusative) — [(виню) кого?] моего папу
Творительный (instrumental) — [(творю) кем?] моим папой
Предложный (prepositional) — [(говорю) о ком?] о моём папе
МАМА
Именительный (nominative) — [кто?] моя мама
Родительный (genitive) — [кого?] моей мамы
Дательный (dative) — [(даю) кому?] моей маме
Винительный (accusative) — [(виню) кого?] мою маму
Творительный (instrumental) — [(творю) кем?] моей мамой
Предложный (prepositional) — [(говорю) о ком?] о моей маме
no subject
Date: 2004-09-22 04:13 am (UTC)Ваня был зол, потому что он не любил овощи.
Vanya was mad, because he didn't like vegetables.
This is for the case where Vanya is a male.
no subject
Date: 2004-09-22 04:18 am (UTC)Станислав Сухина
Ирина Сухина
But:
Станислав Сухин
Ирина Сухина
You could never know for sure before you hear that name from its owner. Many times I stressed a last name in a wrong way, if read it from a book or an article.
* bold means make stress
no subject
Date: 2004-09-22 04:55 am (UTC)Apologies if I actually have come across as utterly stupid; I'm not, honestly - I do know that fathers are male, and I have both male and female friends called Sasha and Zhenya.
no subject
Date: 2004-09-22 04:57 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2004-09-22 06:31 am (UTC)The surrealistic beauty of this phrase drives me crazy:))))
You just made my day, thanks :))))
no subject
Date: 2004-09-22 07:43 am (UTC)I was thinking, why could Vanya be mad, and the word vegetables first came to my mind. :)
no subject
Date: 2004-09-22 08:26 am (UTC)You're wrong, it's not an utterly stupid stuff: many native people do not know what to say in this case, for example:
"Мой врач приказал долго жить" or "Моя врач приказала долго жить" (if talking about a woman-doctor).
There's no such thing as a feminine or a masculine ending in Russian language, at least in my humble opinion. There are endings that appear in feminine words some more often, than in masculine, and vice versa. When you're looking for a word in the dictionary, you look at whether it is masculine (мужской род), feminine (женский род) or neuter (средний род).
As you know, in Russian language there are three declensions of nouns: первое, второе и третье склонение. I suppose you've forgotten that -а (as well, as -я) isn't only feminine ending, it is one of the endings for masculine words in both first and second declensions (в первом и втором склонениях):
"К первому склонению относятся имена существительные мужского рода (кроме небольшого количества существительных на -а, -я: дедушка, сынишка, дядя, Ваня), например: стул, конь, герой, гараж, делец, подмастерье, домишко и др., и имена существительные среднего рода, например: окно, горе, копье, сукно и др.
Ко второму склонению относятся все имена существительные женского, мужского и общего рода на -а, -я, например: вода, сакля, струя, юноша, Боря, сирота и др.
К третьему склонению относятся все имена существительные женского рода на мягкий согласный и на ж, ш, например: дань, мякоть, пустошь, рожь и др."
Just in the case you don't know much about declensions, here's a useful link about them (the quotation comes from there):
http://www.hi-edu.ru/x-books-free/xbook107/01/index.html?part-063.htm#i4305
Первое склонение:
http://www.hi-edu.ru/x-books-free/xbook107/01/index.html?part-064.htm
Второе склонение:
http://www.hi-edu.ru/x-books-free/xbook107/01/part-065.htm#i4587
Третье склонение:
http://www.hi-edu.ru/x-books-free/xbook107/01/part-065.htm#i4638
There's no shame in asking questions about foreign language you study, noone will laugh (at you). Questions about the language—that's what this community's for. When I studied English, I had asked people around a lot of questions, even the silly ones (I thought they were stupid), but nobody laughed; and definitely not everybody were able to answer all the questions I had. Stupid would be not asking, if you don't know, when you've an opportunity to ask.
Not everybody in Russia knows about the language. Yes, there's 99% of literacy, and every native (well, we're not talking about immigrants) knows Russian (knows well or not well, that's not the case). But there's not as many people, who know about Russian language, as people, who know Russian. If you could speak Russian, you know Russian. It doesn't mean that you can explain whatcha know. Questions are good for both learners and native speakers. Questions about what you've always been thinking, as something obvious, make you THINK.
You don't need to apologise, even if you really are sorry :)
no subject
Date: 2004-09-22 08:30 am (UTC)"I suppose you've forgotten that -а (as well, as -я) isn't only feminine ending, it is one of the endings for masculine words in both first and second declensions (в первом и втором склонениях)"
Correct would be: "...-а (as well, as -я) isn't only feminine ending, it is one of the endings for masculine words in second declension (во втором склонении)."
no subject
Date: 2004-09-22 09:25 am (UTC)Мир зелёный и синий
(The world is green and blue)
for colors... but our community seems to tend more along the lines of,
Мама, я боетсь кошки зелёной!
(Mama, I'm afraid of the green cat!)
And on a side note... I actually understood that sentence you had, except for the words vegetables and mad. ;)
no subject
Date: 2004-09-22 09:42 am (UTC)>masculine ending in Russian language, at least
>in my humble opinion.
Всё-таки в русском, в отличие, например, от немецкого, по окончанию слова практически всегда можно определить его род. Исключения составляют уже вышеупомянутые папа с дядей и co., и ещё слова, заканчивающиеся на мягкую согласную, напр. "день", м. vs. "тень", ж. И то при этом "-ость", "-есть" --- женские окончания.
no subject
Date: 2004-09-22 09:55 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2004-09-22 10:23 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2004-09-22 11:38 am (UTC)What you said doesn't sound right to me. I can prove it with this example:
Я боюсь острую вилку. It isn't right.
Я боюсь острой вилки — and that's correct! :))
no subject
Date: 2004-09-22 11:52 am (UTC)Congratulations then! And now you know two more words: "зол" & "овощи"!
Зол (masculine), зла (feminine):
Он зол на неё. Она зла на него.
He is mad at her. She is mad at him.
Злы (pl.):
Они были злы на них обоих.
They were mad at both of them.
Овощи (pl.) — vegetables.
Овощь (sing.) — a vegetable.
Картофель — это не овощь.
Potatoes is not a vegetable.
Гнилые овощи.
Rotten vegetables.
Now, when I'm thinking about the word овощи, I'm noticing a little bit of weirdness it has.
no subject
Date: 2004-09-22 11:56 am (UTC)Зол is a short form for злой.
no subject
Date: 2004-09-22 12:10 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2004-09-22 12:51 pm (UTC)>
>"Мой врач приказал долго жить" or "Моя врач приказала долго жить" (if talking about a woman-doctor).
Thank you! I feel so much better, because this is a problem I have all the time! My professor always corrects me when I start talking about "моя собака" and then switch to using "он" or "его" in reference to him. It's just more natural to my mind, because he is a male dog. And in the case of women professionals, to me it seems better to indicate that the person in question is a woman, even if the grammar seems wrong. But perhaps that is my perspective coming from English language.
no subject
Date: 2004-09-22 01:08 pm (UTC)"Я боюсь этого дяди" не звучит. Я бы сказал: "Я боюсь этого дядю".
но однозначно: "Я боюсь смерти".
no subject
Date: 2004-09-22 01:15 pm (UTC)I looked in the dictionary and somehow mistaken myself.
There is word "овощь", but it means the same, as "овощи" (vernacular):
овощь ’ОВОЩЬ , овощи, нет, ·жен., (·прост. ). То же, что овощи .
And that is why I made the mistake.
Time to sleep, damn it.
no subject
Date: 2004-09-22 01:22 pm (UTC)ИМХО, то, о чём вы говорите — это диалектические различия. Вы откуда родом?
no subject
Date: 2004-09-22 01:23 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2004-09-22 01:26 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2004-09-22 01:27 pm (UTC)You could say "мой пёс" instead of "моя собака," and the professor wouldn't have any reason to correct you.
no subject
Date: 2004-09-22 01:30 pm (UTC)я, на самом деле, сам не на 100% уверен. спрошу в "pishu_pravilno".
no subject
Date: 2004-09-22 11:25 pm (UTC)по нормам языка "боюсь кошки". "боюсь кошку" разговорный вариант.
no subject
Date: 2004-09-23 12:03 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2004-09-23 02:49 am (UTC)Я человек с доминантной визуальной субмодальностью (ориентируюсь более не на слуховую, а на зрительную память), читаю много, и поэтому вариант "боюсь кошку" мне не то, что видится, но и слышится совершенно неправильно.
no subject
Date: 2004-09-28 04:18 pm (UTC)Вася in Russia is for males only.
no subject
Date: 2004-09-29 03:06 am (UTC)only pronouns "my, your" and so on have different declination. For example:
moy papa, moya mama
moyego papy, moyey mamy
moyemu pape, moyey mame
moyego papu, moyu mamu
moim papoy, moyey mamoy
o moyem pape, o moyey mame
no subject
Date: 2004-09-29 03:10 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2004-09-29 03:36 am (UTC)