learn_russian | (no subject)

Current Mood: drunk

(no subject)

This is, perhaps, the stupidest question ever posted here. But it's something I've been wondering about for a while.

Okay, so, Star Trek IV: The Voyage Home? Chekhov keeps saying "nuclear wessels" instead of vessels, and as I'm studying Russian now, I'm confused, because it doesn't look like there is a "w" sound in the language. (Unless I am completely stupid.) So what I'm wondering is if this is just absolutely horrid writing on their part or if there is a valid reason why a native Russian speaker would say "wessels" instead of "vessels".

I know, I know, I need a life.

Threaded | Flat

I don't think that a native Russian speaker would do that; however this might be the producers' idea of funny Russian accent. On the other hand, there is a similar moment in the movie "Lost in translation" where a Japanese woman says "Lip my stocking" instead of "rip", the idea possibly being that she is so proud of her ability of pronouncing the "l" sound that is not in the Japanese language that she now puts it everywhere, where it should and where it should not be; possibly the creators of "Stat Trek" were reasoning along similar lines. But this is only a guess.

I work as a dialect coach with a lot of actors to help them sound like Russian speakers. My explanation of why actors say (or writers write) w's instead of v's on some words is this: there is no "w" sound in Russian, but when rendering English words into Russian, one might replace "w" with a "v" (as in Vashington). It might then be difficult for a native Russian speaker to determine when the "v" is really a "v" or when it's standing in for a "w." Does that make sense?

It's true that in the Russian language there's no "w" sound. However, Russian learners of English often confuse "w" and "v" sounds in oral speech (maybe, because Russian "в" ("v") sound is something between these two ones and it's difficult for us to distinguish). So, I believe, it's normal for a Russian-speaking person to say "wessels".

It’s called “hypercorrection”, and Wikipedia has an article about it (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypercorrection). The idea is that if you don’t understand the difference between “v” and “w” (there being no “w” in your native language), you might overcompensate and use “w” in places where “v” should be.

Chekov is comically hypercorrecting though, since he also says “naval veapons”.

My Russian culture teacher over the summer always said "dewelopment". We could never figure out why, but we heard plenty of other Russians (always men though) doing the same...

When I speak very quickly (and I normally speak faster than New Yorkers, let alone your average Midwesterner) I often will substitute w for v because it is faster - takes a couple milliseconds less of muscle movements to produce.

It has already been discussed above about the hypercorrection. I just wanted to add that my 4th year Russian professor, when describing the word зря, "in vain," made a big deal about how useful an expression it was, and kept on saying consistantly how it meant "in wain," which I had a very hard time not laughing at. I felt really bad, too--he was the sweetest man alive, but "in wain" was very comical, especially when he kept repeating it for emphasis.

So, yes, what Chekhov does is possible, although his accent is not by any means really Russian. (He is one of my favorite characters, however. Classic trek represent!)

I agree that it may be hypercorrection. Or it could be he's secretly Ukrainian. lol.

About the hypercorrection.. Many Philippine languages don't have F in their phonemic inventory; it's usually substituted by P. But still, the F sound is taught in schools as part of learning English. Anyway, my aunt and grandmother tend to hypercorrect. Saying stuff like FARTY instead of PARTY. Lots of laps. I mean laughs. hehe.

Hollywood,
I'm worried that the small world of Hollywood has such a large influence in world opinion.
They make images amercain accept as truth with out question.
It (Hollywood)depicts Russians as the villain and 300 million people believe it....scary.

There's no such reason. They're the gits. :))
Seriously, I had to listen to a special lecture from my English teacher to finally understand the difference between the two.

Threaded | Flat