http://gnomygnomy.livejournal.com/ ([identity profile] gnomygnomy.livejournal.com) wrote in [community profile] learn_russian2016-09-11 03:37 pm

More confusing child speech

Here's the context:

Mom: а кто там ещё был из деток с вами ?
Kid: раз пять шесть четыре и всё
Kid: нас было пять и ещё . (could also have said всё, it's not clear)
Mom: а детки были из вашей группы ?
Kid: нашей с цыплёнок .

Background info: The kid is talking about her groups at school. Her group, I think, is the chicks group. There's another group called the rainbow group.

This is what I think is being said:

Mom: and who among the children was still there with you?
Kid: one, five, six, four and that's it
Kid: there were five of us and more (or, "and that's it")
Mom: but the kids were from your group?
Kid: (from) our (group) with.. um.. chicken? (THIS IS WHERE I'M LOST)

How can I make sense of the fifth line, or is it another example of ungrammatical (and therefore nonsensical) speech?

Another question: Can садик be a short word for детский сад?

Thank you, all!

[identity profile] janelight.livejournal.com 2016-09-11 08:42 pm (UTC)(link)
Something is wrong with what the kid says ) Being native Russian, I am still confused. Нашей с цыпленок is not grammatically correct, nor is clear. I suppose, your guess is the best in this case.
And yes, садик is a common replacement for детский сад.

[identity profile] icamel.livejournal.com 2016-09-12 07:40 am (UTC)(link)
Probably she omitted word "группы" - с нашей, с группы Цыпленок.

[identity profile] mithrilian.livejournal.com 2016-09-11 09:51 pm (UTC)(link)
The last line could be:

M: but the kids were from *your* group, right?
K: С нашей, с "Цыпленок".

Which is an elliptical answer with the full version like this:

Да, присутствовавшие дети были из нашей группы, из нашей группы "Цыпленок".

"с нашей" is colloquial "из нашей", с=из.

This was easy and obvious for me as a native. However, the first answer is off. I guess, the kid has not mastered counting yet.

[identity profile] nesposoben.livejournal.com 2016-09-11 09:56 pm (UTC)(link)
Excuse me, what is the source of these phrases?
"recording" is like what? Video?

Your kid has sort of language lessons in age of 4 at school/kindergarten and they speak Russian on classes? And you're new to Russian?

Mom: but the kids were from your group?
kid: [omitted:Yes] [from] Ours. From 'Chick' [group].

Correct answer [Да] [из] нашей. Из "ЦыплёнКА" (=родительный падеж https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grammatical_case#Russian)
'c' is allowed vernacular form of preposition 'из' (=from)

Also the teacher ('Mom') probably is native Russian speaker, and speaks childishly with her class just to give some time to submerge into sound of new language, grammar will be corrected later.


UPD: читал блог, беру свои слова назад, у вас очень хороший Русский :)
Edited 2016-09-11 22:22 (UTC)

[identity profile] lion-casserole.livejournal.com 2016-09-11 10:35 pm (UTC)(link)
.
I would correct this to produce a meaningful conversation

Mom: А кто там ещё был из деток с вами ?
Kid: Раз, пять, шесть, четыре и всё. ( it seems the kid does not remember the order of numbers here )
Kid: Нас было пятеро и все.
Mom: А детки [ все ] были из вашей группы ?
Kid: Из нашей, [ из группы ] "Цыплёнок".

Mom: And who else of the children was there with you?
Kid: One, five, six, two, three, four, and that's it. There were five of us only.
Mom: Were all the kids from your group?
Kid: Yes, all from our group "Yellows" (meaning "Baby-Chickens").

Your guess is perfectly right, the word "садик" normally would be used instead of "детский сад".
Edited 2016-09-11 22:49 (UTC)

Oh, boy, that is a task, no kidding

[identity profile] lion-casserole.livejournal.com 2016-09-13 03:12 am (UTC)(link)
.
I guess, kids are inventing their own languages using patterns of adult's conversations. That is pretty common for adult Russians to verbalize grammatically incorrect sentences. Kids do not have enough experience, so they cannot filter out or correct improper wording. they are repeating after adults. For an example, while this "с группы" instead of "из группы" is NOT grammatically correct, an adult Russian would accept it with no problem, and it becomes a part of kids self-education. As a result in some regions of Russia it would be nowadays recognized as pretty usual, while it is NOT the "Queen's Russian," sorry for my French. :)

Then, I would not say "Нас было пять" instead of "Нас было пятеро", however I would say "У нас было пять собак" instead of "У нас было пятеро собак." I could not provide a universal rule, that is from my experience - a result of learning Russian from really good school teaches.

My own implementation of Russian is a result of living in many regions of former USSR - Ukraine ( Crimea ), Russia ( Leningrad ), Ukraine ( Kharkov ), some small towns all over the country, as well as in some Russian-speaking communities in Germany. I had an opportunity to hear some regional dialects, while the foundation of my Russian was created by teachers from Moscow and Leningrad. The last but not least - my wife is a graduated professional in Russian language. I am sorry for this off-top, I just needed to tell that to explain why I would not react to some faults in others' Russian : what could be considered being a fault in Moscow is pretty good for guys in Ukraine and vice versa. Some people do not care if their Russian ( of English ) is good enough. Some Russians can successfully use a grammatically incorrect regional version of Russian language and living happy under the motto "Мы университетов не кончали".

[identity profile] zoa-mel-gustar.livejournal.com 2016-09-12 03:55 am (UTC)(link)
In the Russian kindergarden images of cute animals and such are usually used to devide the groups, so the kids would recognize their ocker rooms and so on without being able to read.
But yeah, the kid still have problems with forms of words (or their speech was written incorrectly).

[identity profile] mashysya.livejournal.com 2016-09-12 07:17 am (UTC)(link)
Maybe "нашей с пелёнок"?
Но это выражение используется обычно взрослыми: "они дружат с пелёнок", то есть, с самого раннего детства.

[identity profile] sobaka-by.livejournal.com 2016-09-12 07:52 am (UTC)(link)
I'm native russian speaker but even I can't catch the meaning of what kid want to tell.
Edited 2016-09-12 07:54 (UTC)

[identity profile] dil.livejournal.com 2016-09-12 01:15 pm (UTC)(link)
Most of it doesn't make any sense. Where did you take this context from?

[identity profile] dil.livejournal.com 2016-09-13 09:31 am (UTC)(link)
Can you provide this particular audio for downloading? I could listen to it and check what they are speaking indeed.

[identity profile] zwilling.livejournal.com 2016-09-12 02:13 pm (UTC)(link)
(offtopic)
I keep wondering why so many people don't read comments before posting their own.

[identity profile] wolk-off.livejournal.com 2016-09-12 04:15 pm (UTC)(link)
Er... because they don't care? (Your rusty community moderator)

[identity profile] zwilling.livejournal.com 2016-09-12 04:28 pm (UTC)(link)
Yeah, that's the problem. Or not a problem, if you don't care. (Does you mentioning being a moderator mean I'm pushing some limits?)

[identity profile] wolk-off.livejournal.com 2016-09-12 04:40 pm (UTC)(link)
Not at all, it's just me being knee-deep in happy tears. A real post in the community I considered dead for years!

:)

[identity profile] wolk-off.livejournal.com 2016-09-13 06:59 am (UTC)(link)
(bows deep)

[identity profile] zwilling.livejournal.com 2016-09-13 09:16 am (UTC)(link)
At least make some statistics out of that stuff, right :)

[identity profile] karakal.livejournal.com 2016-09-12 08:40 pm (UTC)(link)
In addition to what's already been said:

Kid: нас было пять и ещё

I guess и ещё is и сё, which in the girl child's language means и всё.